some said the local lake had been enchanted.

[amand_r]

1. I am both repulsed and intrigued. And hungry.

2. We have issues:

Amand-r: I bet Rhys is the occasional cuddler.
Foxy: Rhys, yeah.
Amand-r: with his massive bear paws.
Foxy: MAUL MAUL MAUL
Amand-r: he and Jack should get into one of those girly slap fights with their giant man hands. It'd be like if you and I strapped tennis rackets on our wrists and went to town.
Foxy: LOL that would be excellent.
Amand-r: Raaaaaghr.

Then we decided the world needs more Jack/Rhys with a reasonable explanation.

3. Let's talk for a minute about the SRS. I have a fic in which someone is a paraplegic as a result of Canary Wharf. Oh hell, it's Lisa. Anyway, here's the thing. It's not that she hasn’t made peace with what happened, because Lisa is pretty "this totally blows, and I'll deal with it," but I'm worried about my audience when, at some point in the future, through a series of timey wimey stuff, Lisa regains her ability to walk.

This is not to say that I think that paraplegia is something bad in the sense that those with it are less. But I I'm just going to be honest about myself-- if I lost my ability to walk and then was given the opportunity to do so again, I would jump at the chance. I can't imagine a situation in which I wouldn't. And this is not, I repeat not, similar to someone from the Deaf community deciding not to gain the ability to hear, because Deafness isn't a "disability" the way that paraplegia is from a medical standpoint, in most cases, I gather. And I don't even really like the word disability, but transable, maybe. But nonetheless a transability that some people were not born into, and if given the opportunity, might choose to give up to return to their old form. Does THAT make sense?

I just want to gauge reactions, because I don't know how people will feel about this. I think it's a logical set of reactions on her part, and how she approaches it will be how others in the fic approach it. On the other hand, no matter how much research I do, I am not a paraplegic, and I cannot speak for them. I have been spending a lot of time on transabled.org and other sites to look into BIID. And I'm still pretty confident that this can be done with grace. It is a very science fictiony plot, because, hello? TORCHWOOD, but I don't want to make it seem as if I'm not looking at all the angles.

If you are transabled and have an opinion, please email me, if I could please pick your brain, or you know, if you have more info than I do, or personal experience. My flist is awesome like that. You could also put it in the comments below.

On the other hand, I was thinking about it again, and I might not even be necessary in the story. The walking. Hrm. I mean, it can go either way, actually. Hrm. Now I am torn.

4. Dreamt poorly last night but cannot remember anything.

5. Listening to Regina Spektor on auto play. Yeah, it's going to happen all day.

Comments

[shannon730.livejournal.com]

I'm not paraplegic but eleven years ago very nearly lost the ability to walk (very long complicated explanation) and am now quickly facing that possibility again (again long explanation). I can honestly say that if there was any way to change that I would. Because you're right it's not the same as someone deaf choosing to not get their hearing back. It's different.

If I can help with figuring out the reactions at all I'm happy to help. You can email me at shannon730@gmail.com if you want.

[amand-r.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I'm trying to wrap my brain around this. I threw in the Deaf community reference because a lot of the time in the Deaf community hearing loss isn't a loss, but something that never existed in the first place. But with a great deal of paraplegics, loss of...well, it's not just walking, it's everything pretty much--continence, sensation (though not necessarily sexually), this is something that comes after they had prior had the ability to feel and do these things, so yeah, I'd say that's a loss.

I think that's the key issue. It is a loss. Something you once had is gone-- and in the future when we can repair nerve damage to the extent that this isn't going to be an issue anymore, we might look back on it differently. But like I said, I am open to hearing arguments and where I might be making fail! and not seeing the perceptive filters here.

I'm going to ruminate on the ideas I hopefully get here today and then I'll probably shoot you an email. Thanks for the offer.

[shannon730.livejournal.com]

You're right, when it's something you never had it's different. I think even if you're born paraplegic its not the same as actually having it happen later. For me it is strictly walking because it's not a spinal or nerve injury but I think it's hard for someone who's never experienced to fully understand even what just losing the ability to walk is like. There was a six month period that I couldn't, and as I said was being told that I never would walk. And I accepted that and was adjusting but I still wanted to walk again.

And honestly, at least you're looking into it before writing. I've read entirely too many fics where someone has that sort of disability that leave me wanting to kill the author because they obviously have no idea what they're talking about.

[blue-fjords.livejournal.com]

Did you ever watch "Joan of Arcadia"? The eldest son lost the use of his legs in a car accident, and his character arc was about coming to terms w/ that. He then started to get feeling back and immediately pursued whatever avenues he could to walk again. I'm not sure where it was going to go, as they then canceled the series, but I thought on the whole they did a good job w/ his story arc. (Okay, true confession, I loved that series like burning, in spite of the weirdness of Annie Potts and Joan & Adam's relationship in season 2.)

Rhys cuddles me all the time. When GDL is not over.

[amand-r.livejournal.com]

My dad loved that show. This is proof that you are from another time. a gentler time. A teetotaler time. LOL.

Yeah, I mean, I know that there are some people who actually regain sensation (though I haven't looked into anyone regaining their ability to walk, so I cannot speak for that), and I think for me, the biggest relief would be regaining bowel and bladder control. There are some srs bad things that can result from not having sensation in your lower extremities.

You better be all thinky when you beta read this, lady. If we get lambasted, I will blame...well, I'll blame myself, but still.

YOU HAVE RHYS THERE TOO? DEAR GOD, WOMAN, THAT'S WHWRE THEY ALL ARE. DID YOU LURE THEM WITH SUPER FRENCH WINE?

[blue-fjords.livejournal.com]

A teetotaler time? Um, no. But I am pretty fucking square and instead of being embarrassed about such a thing, I will embrace my squareness. And every now in then let my kinky side out to play. It needs lovin, too.

Wordy mcword on the bowels & bladder.

I am looking forward to delving deep into the beta. I will practice beta fu on it! Hi-yaaaa!

Rhys is going to make me some chocolate chip pancakes now. B/c I'm hungry.

[marita-c.livejournal.com]

I'm no expert, but I know several people who are wheelchair-bound, some who've always been that way, and some for whom it's a relatively new situation. I think that even those among them who are in complete acceptance of their condition, and are as capable and independent as a wheelchair-bound person can be, would rather be out of the chair than in it. They might not subject themselves to painful procedures or experimental treatments, but if a real, well-tested, relatively simple, affordable solution was offered - they would go for it.

I'm excluding people who'd rather stay in that condition because they enjoy the attention and being cared for, because I don't believe they deserve any consideration (*waves* hi mom!).

[amand-r.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think you hit on something. I think the chair is something that has to be integrated into self-identity, because it's essentially a different form for a person. BIID revolves around that, and of course, you essentially have no choice about dealing with the chair-- it's there. and if it was inexpensive and not painful, I think the point is that some people might choose not to go for it, but that there are some who would. It's those latter people that I am concerned with.

[lawsontl.livejournal.com]

My mom had polio when she was younger. They told her she'd never walk again or be able to have children. Even at that age, she more or less refused to accept that. I think part of it was her being stubborn, part of it being young enough to believe what she wanted contrary to medical advice of the 50's. But it definitely shaped her.

So, um, they were wrong on the kids thing, and the walking thing. I'm sure she'd be happy to talk to you about it, but you might want someone who was closer to Lisa's age when it happened. Still, my experience with her and her post-polio support group friends I met when she was still going to group meetings was - across the board - given the chance to get any or all of their ability to walk restored, they would grab it.

As you put it, it's one thing to accept and make a positive out of something you were born with that cannot be changed, but it's another thing to refuse to accept a late onset illness or injury if you have the chance to restore yourself to a previous state.

[phinnia.livejournal.com]

As you put it, it's one thing to accept and make a positive out of something you were born with that cannot be changed, but it's another thing to refuse to accept a late onset illness or injury if you have the chance to restore yourself to a previous state
yes, this.

[amand-r.livejournal.com]

LOL You read the end of the fic. I mean, I could never get her out of the chair, and it'd end the same. It's not like she can't have kids or anything. It just makes it different.

I think the fact that a lot of people in your mom's position, or in paraplegic or quad positions continue to try to walk, especially is an indicator that there is some desire in the community, for that.

[phinnia.livejournal.com]

i'm gimpy enough to qualify as a gimp, i suppose (diplegic instead of paraplegic and at least partly wheelchair-enabled); and what you're saying makes sense to me. (it's early and i haven't had coffee yet so if you want to send me a message or something if you have specific questions go ahead)
<3

[amand-r.livejournal.com]

Oh thank goodness it makes sense! If, after your coffee, you feel differently, feel free to come back here and give me what's for.

Your input is extremely valuable, p. It's immensely just to get direction from people who have experience. If I have questions, I will PM you for definite. FOR GRATE DEFS. :D

[beesandbrews.livejournal.com]

My mom is a quad due to an accident she had several years ago. There's no flipping way she's ever getting out a chair again. But, that doesn't change the fact that she's convinced that one of these days someone is going to come up with a therapy or a treatment or something and she's gonna walk. If mobility is something you had, if the opportunity is there, then unless your character is a hopeless head case, (and she's not), she's going to grab it with both hands. (even if the process is long, difficult and painful)

[amand-r.livejournal.com]

Ah, you hit it for me. What I don't want to do is marginalise those in chairs now by having Lisa reject the chair for a cure. Like, "oh you cured her in the fic because there's something WRONG with being paraplegic." That is what I want to avoid. It only occurred to me last night when I was writing something else, that I might have made a grevious error.

[copperbadge.livejournal.com]

I don't know if it's quite the same, but I wrote an arc in one of my fics where Lisa lost an arm to Canary Wharf, and we as readers enter her life on the day she gets a new high-tech prosthetic arm, which is a huge help to her -- she immediately feels whole again, that she has her arm "back", etc. I didn't have any complaints about it. On the other hand it wasn't the major arc of the fic, so. Take that for what it's worth :)

[amand-r.livejournal.com]

That's useful. Also slightly amusing, as I was, before I settled on paraplegia, going to make her a double amputee (I had decided to take her legs away for the story), but decided that the medical complications with paraplegia were better suited to the issues dealt with in the story. Now I'm really glad I didn't stay with that.

[sthayashi.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure that few to no one complained about a commercial that ran a number of years ago that showed Christopher Reeve getting up and walking from a wheelchair. And this wasn't a small commercial, it ran during the friggin' Superbowl!

I found a good Time article that may be worth reading in your case. TL;DR, the only issue people had with the commercial was the notion of giving false hope.

[amand-r.livejournal.com]

I thought a lot about CR when I was writing this up, becasue there's an example of a person who was determined NOT to be in his chair anymore. On the other hand, and not to minimise the paraplegic issue, he was a quad. This is a person who has to be on a ventilator, let alone all the other issues that come with being almost fully paralysed. I think the extent of his injury, coupled with his ability to influence change as a celebrity, and his sheer activeness before he became paralysed fed into CR's stance on cure.

On the other hand, I kind of agree with the author of the article. I'd never seen the commercial before. There has to be some sort of happy medium between the two viewpoints, though. It's NOT just around the corner, but it could happen someday, so there has to be some balance.

[easilymused1956.livejournal.com]

Okay, here goes. I lived in a care center aka nursing home for three years. While there I met paraplegics and quadriplegics. And they would have gotten out of those 'special' chairs in a half=second if offered the chance to walk again.

I personally spent over two years in a wheelchair, and would have given it up in a half-second.

One thing that truly pissed me off was when people would say things like, 'Wish I had a wheelchair so I could *whatever*!'

If only they knew...

Anyway, I can walk (not that particularly well) now, and I never want to have to use that chair again. Go for that fic!

Renee

[amand-r.livejournal.com]

Oh thank you so much! WTF with people wishing for a wheelchair? do you think they were trying to be nice? I dunno, sometimes I think people go out of their way to try not to sound pitying or whatever, mostly because they don't get how they should act around the chair, especially when they don't know a lot of people who are in them? I dunno. I actually don't know anyone who uses a wheelchair, so sometimes I find myself looking and thinking about the issues that it brings up. Maybe that's a faux pas.

I appreciate your comments. I really was unsure if I was handling the situation in an insensitive manner, but everyone seems to be in agreement about it. I shall forge ahead with the original plan.

[phaetonschariot.livejournal.com]

Hell, it's got to have more grace than the Stargate bodyswap thingor.

[amand-r.livejournal.com]

You mean the latest casting call? Yeah, that was weighing on my mind.

[kel-reiley.livejournal.com]

3. can't possible speak from experience - although, i'd be very much in your camp of 'being given the chance to walk again, i would say YES PLEASE!'

BUT i think it would be totally doable - you've already stated that lisa has made peace with it, she is a perfectly functioning person, losing the ability to walk has not turned her into a useless lump (as i think is one of the biggest objections ppl have to that, b/c that is just not the case) and she is still a strong, abled woman
if given the chance to walk again, and assuming this choice does not come with 'evil consequences' i think she would choose to take it, not b/c she feels useless or helpless or just less like a person without the use of her legs, but b/c she would want to walk again

does that make sense?

[amand-r.livejournal.com]

That's my thinking. It's actually a trip in the TARDIS that does it. You know, sometimes the Doctor comes and does good things, la la la la.